Bylaw amendment proposal discussion

[dnicol]

Just gotta point out for anyone who is not fully familiar with the by-laws - they require more than a simple majority vote if they are to be amended.

23.2 In order for the amendment to be approved it must be supported by two thirds (2/3) or
more of the Members that participate in the vote.

Personally, I think that overall the amendments are pretty good.

When we produced the present by-laws (within the two years allowed after falling under UNIFOR's umbrella) I was against including language from other UNIFOR documents - we could just make references. However, as Blair pointed out, important directives have been missed in the last few years and including some of the language will make it easier for those that are too busy to go slogging through the UNIFOR web-site.

Mac

[CNilsen]

There is nothing stopping the next MEC or even a person on their first day at Sunwing from proposing new amendments and evolving the document once again.

Forward progress. Lots of good points by guys. It's amazing how these threads develop positively when everyone shares thoughts ideas and opinions.

The election is only weeks away. These bylaws we vote on now won't even be approved by National by then. Why have a vote now, and then another in two months Jeff?

Building further on jeffs point. Why wouldn't the MEC take an attitude that they are going to share their experiences, present their research to and collaborate with the next MEC.

Rationalising that we have to do this 'right here right now' because the next MEC can't be trusted... because the current one couldn't be? I mean... Don't vote Biden because he may do this, or this, or that... kinda subtle (unintentional though - no offense intended - there's just not a better word) fearmongering...

...Only the current MEC can be trusted... But Darren has driven many of the changes in the bylaws.... based on complaints of the current MEC. That is a huge win for Darren!

If some new person is elected, shouldn't we be starting from a position of trust and give them the professional benefit of the doubt?

Is there a big scandal that's about to unfold that we all need immediate protection from?

95% of the pilot group isn't going back to work in the next two months.

What's the rush? Why during the Christmas Holiday? What's the MEC's motivation for doing this right before an election?
Why can't this MEC simply work together with the next MEC and bring their experiences forward?

The optics are really bad.

[dacri]

What's the rush? Why during the Christmas Holiday? What's the MEC's motivation for doing this right before an election?
Why can't this MEC simply work together with the next MEC and bring their experiences forward?

The optics are really bad.

[CNilsen]

JJagoe and HWahab raised very important concerns regarding the abuse of PMTG days by volunteers to gain ‘Superseniority’. (sorry guys, long post, but MBusutil used 15,000 words to rationalize this)

What they are talking is the K’Superseniority’Collins Clause that is being proposed.

But MBututil is not listening… He is telling JJaggoe and HWahab what he ‘thinks’ and rationalizing and imposing his position as a person of authority. That's not right. That's not representation.

There’s a lot of history to this, that maybe needs to be said because there are probably 300 pilots who were hired after the disaster of 2014.

For reference everyone, ‘Superseniority’ is a system which allows a junior member to bypass the normal system of seniority and gain benefits that their seniority wouldn’t otherwise hold, ahead of more senior members.

So, the CBA2 allowed for 1000 Credit hours of PMTG Days. In 2014 one single member used (I think it was) 1400 hours. Organized his schedule so that he effectively had six months off from flying duties straight. Effectively a fully paid position. It sent our union into effective bankruptcy and we had to take out a loan for $135,000 to pay back the company.

Mat Rogers, XOtte, and DMcHugh dragged us out of that dark hole through a number of measures to ensure austerity and ensure that this could never happen again.

• PMTG were only to be used for Pre-Assigned-Meetings scheduled the month in advance.

• It was expected that for four credit hours pay, the person would be doing 8 hours of work. Same as our CBA.

• PMTG’s could not be backdated.

• PMTG couldn’t be put on weekends or attached to vacations… Cause there was no union activities on weekends…

Union positions were ‘Volunteer’ positions. Given the time off to do their duties as required. I can remember on the Negotiations Committee, XOtte making me send in the times worked and the documentation on each PMTG day. 8 hours of work…

In 2015 I think those guys only used 25 PMTG days between the three of them. Busted their arses off, negotiations, bylaws amendments and trying to rebuild a union that was obliterated… and they never complained… or bragged about how awesome they were. Just humble, hard working pilots.

These policies were carried forward into the 2017 MEC. Administered by the treasurer until the president unilaterally took control.

Here we are three years later. BARMANN and DBUTCHER have been talking right from start about how they feel that MEC Positions should be paid positions and volunteers should be financially rewarded for their time.

History repeats itself… absolute power corrupts absolutely. But this time using the bylaws effectively as a CBA.

Mat Rogers raised the alarm on the abuse of PMTG days by the MEC.

The MEC sent their henchmen to attack him, he was mocked, publicly ridiculed, his concerns dismissed and the MEC swept the matter under the carpet.

In a not-for-profit organization, even at the hint of impropriety, there should be an investigation.

well this what MRogers was talking about.

kCollins schedule 2.png

KCollins Schedule 3.png

KCollins schedule1.png

MRogers pointed this out - BLATANT ABUSE? Decide for yourselves.
6 PMTG Days within a two week period…
4 PMTG Days on two consecutive weekends…
We all know how to bid strategically and those PMTG days look suspiciously strategically positioned to coordinate with vacation and days off to have SEVEN consecutive weeks off from flying duties.

It literally looks like it could have been cut and pasted from the 2014 guy's schedule.

What Union meetings were scheduled on weekends?
Our pilot group paid KCollins $1400 x 2 = $2800 to have 2 weekends off in May/June?
I find it hard to believe there wasn’t another more senior pilot that wanted to have those weekends off with their wives and kids.... JJagoe and HWahab have raised concerns.

In 2014 our pilot group labelled that same behaviour as (insert your own label).

taking days off from a fellow pilot.
Gaming the ‘Superseniority’ System.
Taking $2800 in payment for union work accomplished… On WEEKENDS!
$3400 in union pay in 2 weeks? (bad at math sorry) Somebody previously mentioned that a lawyer would be cheaper. Maybe.
Superseniority... Priceless.

And MBusutil wants to legitimize that Behaviour?

They did this once in May/June, got away with it and continued to do it until MRogers issued a public complaint.

I remember looking at the 'committee's' list at the time... He wasn't listed on any Union Committee. I've looked through the union emails, he's not listed on any in that time frame (It's possible I missed one). Maybe there was a secret committee we didn't know about that management shceduled meeting with on Sundays?

I referred to it as the K’Superseniority’Collins Clause because it appears to be the most blatant abuse and because the optics look like the clause was written WORD FOR WORD entirely to accommodate KCollins schedule above. Is he planning on running for the MEC? is this part of BARMANN’s ‘CBA’ working conditions he wants in the bylaws, secured by vote before his TEIM volunteers…

(Disclosure, I don't know KCollins, Give him the benefit of the doubt maybe he's a great guy, but on it's face, a lot of guys considered his schedule an abuse)

I don’t agree or disagree with the proposals, but JJagoe and HWahab raised their concerns and they should be validated.

My Opinion, if someone gets caught with their hand in the cookie jar, they shouldn't be allowed to do any union work again.

We should be maintaining the highest standard of ethics in our representation.

What I do know is there are two different Philosophies. MRogers' philosophy of 'Volunteerism' vs BARMANN’s “Representation by Cronyism”.

The Optics on this are really, really, really… BAD.

And it has to STOP!

We've seen this before, and it ended really bad.

Maybe the Next MEC takes the JBinks approach "There has to be a better way".

Why Rush? Why over the Christmas Holiday Season? What is the motivation of the MEC in doing this literally days before an election? Why wouldn't the current MEC take an attitude of collaboration with the next MEC?

Donald Trump Politics

[MBusuttil]

Hi Chris,

Can you verify this is in the bylaws:

"PMTG couldn’t be put on weekends or attached to vacations… Cause there was no union activities on weekends…"

If I missed it, then I would be at fault.

Thanks,

Mike Busuttil

[kcollins]

Chris, fyi I’m not junior at Sunwing, I’m in the top third of the company. I’ve been awarded every GDO request as a captain for about 3 years now. I don’t need any super seniority system to get time off, nor have I for the almost two years I’ve been working in the Union. So your post is moot, but I’ll at least take everyone through my side of it for transparency.

You probably have no idea how much work me, and now Mark, actually do in Compliance, but almost none of it is known the month ahead. Issues come in and we deal with them as they come. Even when we do go into the office, it’s a request with a day or two notice to deal with a discipline issue. So for the work we do, it’s actually impossible to know on which specific days it will be done. In fact the work is generally daily, so there is no one day where I set aside 4 or 8 hours for union work. But I still have to put a PMTG day request in before the bid, so how do I pick the days?


Personally, after working for a few months in Compliance, it seemed appropriate to take 1-2 PMTG days a month based on the amount of work I was doing. And then Piyush started his death by 1000 cuts, and the issues just started rolling in, but I kept it to 2 days in consultation with Mike who budgets them. The frequency of how many in a 2 week period is irrelevant, it should be looked at on a monthly basis. Any months where I took above 2, like in your example there was a month with 4, is because I actually went into the office on 2 days the month prior, likely on my GDOs, for short notice meetings/discipline, on top of the regular amount of work. So I would then request that day for the following month. There has never been any backdating of any PMTG days.

So when I put the PMTG request form in, I just pick 2 days I want off the following month. That’s it, no strategy. If it’s a weekend so be it. I’ve never heard of no PMTG days on weekends, though I certainly do work on weekends. I’ve got to request them somewhere, so whatever it may be the following month that I want off, that’s where I put the request in. How else could I do it? I’ve never thought twice about it because I’ve been senior long enough now that I get everything off that I want anyways.

[dbutcher]

Hey Chris,

We use PMTG days for sched relief for our MEC / committees who do a lot of work for all of our benefit. Provided we stay within our allotment they cost the Union nothing as they are paid for by the company. Mike has done a budget each year for the MEC and each committee. We are ending this year with a bank in excess of 500 PMTG days because they have been well managed over the past years. Each time a member uses a PMTG it provides work for another, more Captain positions and more FO’s. How you might ask? The flying they would have done but now will not because of the PMTG usage will be covered by someone else.

I do support using PMTG days and will continue to. One of our goals was to build a team to represent our members, to expand outside the usual group of hard working MEC. We now have active functioning committee’s looking out for our interests that we never had before, a true team. We have Jumpseat, Interline, FRMS, Benefits, Compliance, Health and Safety, TOC, Bidding, Catering Deployed Ops, Elections, FDM, Interline, Jumpseat, Payroll, Scheduling, Uniform, Trustee, Mods and Web Admin. A lot of these committees have high workloads and they should not be expected to shoulder all of that on their own. We have a negotiated benefit (PMTG days) to provide them with sched relief so they have the time to ensure our members interests are represented. The 6 months that you were on the MEC you may have felt that not using PMTG days gave you a sort of badge of honor but trust me, members who shoulder this burden full time burn out. When the current MEC got elected we wanted to ensure we had a large team to properly support our growing group. At last count we have over 60 active members helping protect your interests. This is the team we wanted to build, this is the team we need.

[jjagoe]

I don’t think that was his point Derek. You can use all the pmtg days we have. But don’t use them on days you’d never hold off.

Mike I like what you wrote, even though you wrote it in jest! I’ll add to it “no pmtg days on holidays, weekends, birthdays or before/after vacation.” Would that work? Can they be put into aims? You get your credit but the days are based on your seniority?

J

J

[dbutcher]

How do you know he wouldn't hold those days off? Does that mean that Union work shouldn't occur on GDO's / Vacation / Weekend days? How would a Junior FCM who did Union work be able to attend meetings, conferences, etc if he couldn't hold the day off?

I understand i did not address his specific example however the overall philosophy is what I am getting at.

[gmason]

.

[MBusuttil]

Hi Jason,

We’ve had quite an exciting internal discussion on your point about PMTG placement, specifically to do with Vacation. Initially, I was convinced that this is a reasonable request that you are asking. But after the discussion, I am not convinced at all and here is why:

We have no choice in losing days off of our schedule for short notice work. Every single time someone gets called into the office, we simply have to go. The company does not give us a choice on these days. We HAVE to represent and countless times, members of the MEC or compliance are giving up their days off to defend. If we don’t go in, the member can sue the Union. And they have! And we’ve been successful in these DFR cases because we’ve been there and done the job.

When people try to get their days back, they place them on their schedule for their benefit because they already sacrificed. This is a fair return for being available 365 days a years for the group. People value their time off all across our seniority list, but we have to lose that time.

Another example of where days are lost are with grievance timelines. We simply lose grievances for missing timelines no matter how easy the win. Members of compliance and MEC often have short notice to collect information and write up a well written grievance. This time comes out of GDO's and vacations and it's done on weekends and birthdays and holidays.

Another thing that happens are conferences that occur during peoples vacations. Several of our members simply go to conferences during their vacation. They get the V block award and the conference dates come after. They just work on their vacation and they get days back in whatever way works best for them because of that type of loss. The gains for these conferences could be elaborated, but I don’t want to exceed 15,000 words.

I hope this seems like a reasonable reply to your reasonable request.

Thanks,

Mike Busuttil

[Ptillaart]

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[dacri]

Ptillaart,

Here’s a friendly suggestion for a new bylaw.

Get rid of Barret’s biased henchmen. His hand picked Moderators.

It reeks of cronyism...

“A moderator’s decision to remove a comment or ban a member from the Forum is discretionary and final.”

Darren

[dacri]

Fellow Flight Crew Members,

The By-Law review and question period process has been completed. On December 26, the voting for ratification of the proposed amendments will begin and open for 7 Days.


What’s the point of a discussion Barret??

Has anything changed? You’re fully aware how LOU/Bylaw voting works...

Why even bother...you were “elected to run the ship”

Darren

[dacri]

Any member in good standing will be given full unobstructed access to all bank accounts, statements, forms and original receipts.

Complete madness. Imagine if everyone demanded full access to UNIIFOR National's accounts. I got a feeling they would not have been as polite as you were Mike. The trustees are elected by the group and can do their work in a time efficient manner.

Mac

Where there’s smoke there is usually fire!

What’s to hide president Barret????

Now you don’t like inclusiveness, transparency.

Accountable to who??? The membership? lol
Or your accountant we are paying...
Darren